Kevin Tyler - Bay & Bicknell

Kevin Tyler on Building Bay & BNE, Fractional Marketing, and Storytelling That Moves People

The Blackbridge Mindset Podcast hosts catch up and introduce guest Kevin Tyler, a marketing strategist and founder of Bay & BNE, a Santa Monica boutique consultancy named after Bay and Bicknell streets and the nearby historic “Inkwell” beach space. Kevin explains how the company’s name reflects lineage, identity, and the importance of storytelling in modern branding, emphasizing that businesses should practice the same storytelling they sell. He shares his path from varied agency and higher-ed roles to entrepreneurship after leaving a toxic DC agency on December 18, 2024, using 2025 to validate his concept before forming an LLC and scaling with freelancers. Kevin defines fractional marketing, discusses pricing evolution, vetting and rejecting misaligned clients, and advises entrepreneurs to invest in clear messaging and strategy to reach audiences where they already are.

00:00 Welcome to Blackbridge
00:27 Catching Up and Travel Plans
01:40 Airport Chaos Talk
02:37 Meet Kevin Tyler
04:15 Bay and BNE Origin Story
06:11 Storytelling as Strategy
07:18 Why He Went Solo
10:34 Launching the Consultancy
13:03 Cutting the Golden Handcuffs
15:39 What Fractional Marketing Means
17:42 Favorite Brand Projects
22:14 Marketing That Moves People
24:41 Pricing and Value
27:06 DIY Branding on a Budget
29:38 Marketing Yourself Through Community
31:46 Client Fit and Red Flags
34:05 1000 Dollars Marketing Plan
35:24 Marketing Truths and Shortcuts
36:52 Creativity as Fuel
38:18 Where to Find Kevin
38:48 Podcast and Book Shoutouts
40:34 Food Favorites and Travel
41:41 Referrals and Closing Ritual

Insta: @bayandbicknell

Website: www.bayandbicknell.com

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 Hosts:

• Mike 
• CJ
• Ken

Transcript

CeeJae 0:00

Hello, and welcome to the Blackbridge Mindset Podcast, where culture, entrepreneurship, and business intersect to fuel inspiration. This podcast celebrates the power of diverse voices shaping the future of business. So whether you're building a business, breaking barriers, or just looking for some serious inspiration, you're in the right place. The Blackbridge Mindset, where culture and entrepreneurship collide.

Mike 0:27

it's been a long day. I'm tired. My wig is busted, but I am here trying to look like Ken and cj Beautiful Black Kings. That's all I got. I am pulling it out of all

CJ 0:40

Here you are

Mike 0:42

there right now. What?

CJ 0:44

said Here you are.

Mike 0:46

Yeah, I am because I, I don't know. It's, it's been a week. There's been a lot going on. There's been a lot of. I still have family drama, which was just pulled up yesterday. My sister called me, actually that was this morning. That's how long of a day it's been. My sister called me a little bit of family drama with the lady. But yeah, outside of that, everything has been good. Keeping busy. Going to Madrid with Ken next week. So starting to prepare for that. So I'm really excited for that. So yeah, that's life. And the three of us were just together in Atlanta over the weekend, so, so that was fun. We should have taken some pictures to put online and stuff, but we didn't, we were in the moment.

CJ 1:22

we did and we have some PG ones.

Ken 1:26

We did. all, they're all pg. I don't think there are any.

Mike 1:30

That sounds a scary and sketchy, but it not what it sounds like people.

Ken 1:34

Not at all. I don't even know.

CJ 1:35

pg, I mean with no alcohol in hand.

Mike 1:38

Oh, Okay. We'll go with that. Yeah. But you two good.

Ken 1:43

Good, good. Looking forward to the trip to Madrid next week. Not looking forward to the airport experience, but otherwise once we get through that,

CJ 1:51

I don't envy either one of you. After going through what I went through on Sunday trying to get out of Atlanta, I saw a video that Noelle sent me today. Your airport. Is literally is like Houston's was and probably still is, where people are outside and down the block.

Ken 2:07

Yeah, my only saving grace, I hope, is the fact that my flight isn't until 10:00 PM So I'm hoping that by that point all that madness will be,

Mike 2:18

Are you leaving from an international criminal?

Ken 2:20

yeah, from

Mike 2:21

I think you'll be fine. 'cause there was a guy who sat next to me and he did what Jared said that we should do. He went to the international terminal and he said that he was only in there for like 30 minutes and then he took the train over to the main terminal. So you should be all right. But We're gonna get started because. We have a guest on today that I'm really excited to talk to because we all know him personally, but we haven't seen him in like a decade, almost, maybe longer. I don't know when he moved, but we'll just get right into it. I'm really excited today about today's guest. Our guest today is the marketing strategist, the brand builder and founder of Bay and bne, a boutique consultancy based out of Santa Monica, California. With over 15 years of experience and more than a hundred brand partnerships under his belt, he has built a reputation helping organizations in higher education, nonprofits, cultural institutions, and hospitality. Not just to get noticed, but actually connect with people that they're trying to reach. His philosophy don't just market to people, move them. That idea is the heart of everything he does, and honestly is exactly the kind of thinking I think every entrepreneur needs to hear. Please welcome to the show, Kevin Tyler.

Kevin 3:36

Thank you so much for having me.

Mike 3:38

Thank you for being here with us. How have you been? How is Santa Monica? How is the weather there?

Kevin 3:44

The weather here right now is quite nice. It feels like summer. It has felt like summer fairly early this year. So we're all concerned about what August is gonna feel like, but we'll get to August. It's beautiful right now though.

CJ 3:58

Yeah, just make us jealous. Leave. Right in with that

Ken 4:02

Kevin, just how close are you to the beach?

Kevin 4:06

So we live a four minute walk on foot from our front door to the sand. So it's very, very, very close.

Mike 4:15

What is Bay and Bicknell?

Kevin 4:18

Yeah, sure. So, BA BNE is a marketing and brand new consultancy I opened officially last month. Ba Bne are the two streets, I live between currently and obviously is the founding, location of. My company, but it's also the two block stretch of beach that black people were only allowed to use in the early 19 hundreds. And so it's, it's referred to as the Inkwell. There's an inkwell on the West coast and there's an inkwell on the East coast in Martha's Vineyard. Our, ink well on the West Coast is right behind our house. And when we moved here the week we moved here, my husband and I were walking down the beach and there's this plaque that talks about the importance of the ink well in that space. And that's where all the domestics people who cleaned houses, that was the only part of the beach that, folks who look like us we're allowed to use. And so it's, really a testament to my own lineage and, history and this new life that we've created in Santa Monica.

CJ 5:14

Yeah, you just educated me 'cause I never, knew exactly what that term meant. Inkwell,

Kevin 5:20

Yeah. It was, it was originally, cast as a derogatory term, but like most things that are given to us, we, kind of redefined it and it's really important to me to have, it has become, especially. Recently, more important to me to have a much thicker connection to my roots, um, my blackness, my gayness, all the things that make me, who I am. And, you know, when you're naming a company, it's not an easy task, right? You, you think of a, a, a list of 50, and then you Google them and there's another 20 that already have selected that, and. So I've moved into a more geographical direction and, Bambi now, you know, it, it's repetitive sound. It's one syllable, two syllable. It's, easy to remember and it has a meaning that, re resonates with me. So I'm with that.

CJ 6:11

Knowing the, the history of, your brick and mortar, your location, how is that affecting or how is that, influenced what you provide for your, general public, what you do for your business.

Kevin 6:25

Yeah. So I think that the, the, I was gonna say new currency and marketing and branding, but it's not, it's not exactly new. It just feels like it's been reinvigorated as, the value of storytelling. And I, if, if we are not telling stories for our own brands, how do we expect to tell stories for others and understanding what those connection points are between. What you're trying to do and how people behave, which is what marketing is, is like understanding what people need, how they operate, and then getting to where they are before they know that you're marketing to them. all of that is ensconced inside how I present myself and my business. Right. And, I have always been, of the belief that. The services we provide for our customers are the services we should probably prioritize for ourselves as well. And so we're not doing a good job of storytelling, for, for my company. Then why would someone hire me to do storytelling for them

CJ 7:18

Can you give us a brief, background of, how you came up with the, the idea for your business and, you know, when did you have that aha moment that you could turn what you do into an actual business?

Kevin 7:30

Yeah. So I have had tons and tons of jobs, all in every industry sector. I've just had a lot of jobs and working is something I really enjoy doing. I am approaching 50, which is weird to even say, out loud 'cause I haven't said that sentence before. But I'll be 48 this year, which Oh, yeah. Oh, I know. Like it can't get worse. Right, but, I was leading an agency, outside of dc for about a year, and I've worked in creative agencies, I've worked client side, I've worked at, in higher education institutions. It's, just run the whole gamut. And I've been able to pick up things that I really believe work in a business setting, whether that's a cultural component, whether it's process, whether it's personality, whatever else. And I've also learned what I don't want to have to work with. And I guess at a certain age, for myself, a I wanted to build a, a, a, a dream of my own as opposed to building someone else's. And B, I thought that I had, I think that I have. Other ways to approach businesses and relationships that are less transactional, feeling more substantive, and a bit more sticky. And so really what this is, is the cobbling together of all the lessons I've learned over the last 15, 20 years, serving clients on behalf of other agencies and institutions, and building that for myself, because I, it's been a, it's been a flame that has burned. For a while and I thought it was important to try. I wanted to make sure I stayed close to those two industries. I was a James Beard judge a couple of years ago for Southern California. I've been able to do some voting responsibilities for some other list building outlets that support restaurants and other parts of the hospitality industry. And so those two pieces of expertise together, or how I identified who I would be serving from an audience perspective.

Ken 9:30

Okay. That's, that's great. Talk. Talk about the, I guess, the how you figured out that food and hospitality, right? Like restaurants and hospitality and higher education, like, talk about how you figured out that would all work together.

Kevin 9:48

Well, we are still figuring that out, but the connective thread, at least for me, is just really about exposure, right? We. What we expose ourselves to in higher education about what we want to do for the rest of our lives, which is a, a wild thing that we're asked to do at such a young age, but also the exploration that is kind of inherent in food, wine, traveling experiences, cultural experiences. All of that serves to you know, elevate folks and who they are as people, how they represent themselves, and the, and it might seem that they're disparate, inputs, but really at the end of the day, education in its more most formal sense is completely related to education in its most informal sense, and what we are learning about food, wine, culture, beer, travel, et cetera.

CJ 10:34

Not necessarily going into full detail and, and giving specific, I guess dollar amounts or anything like that, but can you give the audience an idea of how you took your experience and your talents decided to go off on your own, what steps you took to, to form your business and to get it off the ground.

Kevin 10:51

So I really took 2025 and turned that into kind of a proof of concept year. I wanted to be sure that this was what I wanted to do full time and I didn't wanna start any sort of ball rolling in terms of paperwork and setting things up if I didn't think it was gonna be something I wanted to do. And so 2025 was just me. Getting projects that I knew I could do and did those, whatever. I will tell you that there were months where it was really scary, right? Because the thing that I think a lot of, well, the thing that I didn't recall in the, in the formation of this is that, you know, in my agency work, I would sell the thing and then help out with the development of it. There was a whole team of people behind me to do that. Now I have to find the work, sell the work, and then do the work. And so it becomes, it's like a whole, it's, you are the business, right? You're doing it all. And if you don't sell it, then you don't, you know, you don't do it and you don't make it the money. And so it was a really nice exercise, you know, thank God I have a really supportive husband who carried me through those rough months of 2025 when like, I don't know, man. This is not what I think I wanna do. But then, you know, you turn a corner. There are, there's a bit more hope. And so that's what did in 2025, I'm just now like filing paperwork, setting up LLCs, all, all of that. And really going after more of the, the larger scale projects that I really know that I could do a really great job at. And that includes, you know, cobbling together group of freelancers who I know and trust that I've worked with before for projects that extend my, my skillset. So I can kind of reach further into some of the markets that. I have interest in working with, and I think the other thing that is a different differentiator, right? I think this is more of a timing thing than anything, is that right now, especially in higher education, marketing and branding specifically industry is losing budget from states. And the agency price tag is gonna be really high. And so I offer a high quality opt alternative. The same quality of work at a cheaper price. 'cause it's a smaller shop. And so what's known as a Challenger brand, bay and Mcne is that now for some of the agencies I worked for in the past.

Mike 12:59

There's a lot of entrepreneurs out there who are looking to get started as well. So you, you've mentioned sort of, you know, the, why, but did you get over that mental shift of like. Now is the time. Let me go ahead and do it. Let me cut the golden handcuffs and and just go for it. 'cause it sounds like, like you said, you, you had your husband to support you, but I'm sure there was a mental shift in your head that was like, it's now or never. Hey, quick pause. If you're still rocking with us, go ahead and hit that like or follow button. It only takes two seconds. It's okay. I'll wait. Perfect. Not only will you be informed of new episodes when they come online, but you're also helping us reach more community members who are interested in being entrepreneurs and who may benefit from content like this. So thank you. Thank you, thank you. And, uh, yeah, not gonna keep you waiting. So back to Kevin. Yeah, it was December 18th, 2024. I was leading an agency in d in DC called Collaborative Communications Group. And while the work that I did there was great, I was a. Senior Vice president. I was, it was a lot of travel, which I didn't mind so much but it was an extremely toxic space, extremely toxic. And December 18th 2024, I was having a super unsettling and very unregulated phone call with the, the. Owner and founder of that, that agency. And in that moment with my husband standing next to me listening to this ridiculous phone call, I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm in my mid forties. I deserve, I, no one deserves to be treated like this at a workplace. And so I left and it was, it was not a rash decision. It had been kind of brewing over the, you know, course of many months. It had al already been, already been planted in my head from current clients at that place that, you know, you'd be really great at this on your own. And so I did it. I took one month to just kind of like figure out what The heck, to do and how to do it right. Because I, to me it was leveraging a network is has to be choreographed. You can't just like blanket. I think it has to be intentional and strategic. And I wanted to be thoughtful about how I approached a chapter in my life that. I had never experienced before. I know that there are things I had to learn. I'm still like, I learned something new every day about what it means to be a business owner. and, but it felt like it was right. It felt like it was right because I knew what I stood for. I had principles and values that did not align with the place I was working before. And what better way to live up to the, the standard that I've set for myself than to work for myself. And so that's, that's how I got to where I am now. Love that. And were you fractional at your other companies or are you, did you just, okay.

Kevin 15:45

All the

Mike 15:45

And before. Okay i'm one of those people who literally learned what fractional was maybe three or four years ago. So, two part question. So for people who don't know what fractional is, if you can explain what that is, and then, you know, fractional marketing is sort of a growing space. Well, what does that actually look like day to day when you're embedded with a client?

Kevin 16:07

Sure. So for those who might not be familiar, fractional in my, in my case, marketing is an engagement where I. Can either lead a department and through a, some sort of transition, right? We've lost our chief marketing officer. We need someone to just kind of make things move while we find the next person. But in that time, you're making decisions around, you're not really, rarely are you hiring and firing folks, but you're either refining strategies or refining processes, making sure that the, the table is set nicely or the ground is softened for the next person who kind of walks in. There are other kinds of engagements like one I had last year with a tech company that was really about standing up a marketing practice that had never existed before. It was, it was a very sales oriented operation, but there was really no marketing arm to it. And you can usually make more sales if you have a marketing situation attached to it. And so that's what that looks like. But in higher education. It can look like any number of things. And the day-to-day that I've experienced so far in fractional engagements were those two things, right? Like just making sure the lights stay on and the water keeps moving forward, or standing up an effort that has never existed before, providing a template and saying thank you, goodnight. And moving on to the next thing. Hopefully in the latter example there's enough manpower person power to make the. Strategy work. And in those cases where there isn't, then I can come back and add a couple more sets of hands to, to figure out how to make it more successful. So it's it's, it can look like anything the organization needs it to be. But it all is in service to the mission, vision, and success of the organization.

CJ 17:43

It mentions in your bio that you've worked with over hundreds of brands. of those brands stand out the most of you, to you which have, have you know, given you a, a, a great sense of, of success and, and. Touched your, the fabric of who you are as a marketing person.

Kevin 18:03

Yeah, so the majority of those brands fall into the educational category, whether they're museums, higher education institutions, K 12 systems, et cetera. And, you know, there are lots of different ways to think about what a successful project looked like in its result. A couple of the, of the ones that come to mind most immediately there's a small historically black college in Dallas called Paul Quinn College. It's really a unique in its delivery of higher education. You know, students leave there with a committed debt load of less than $10,000. And they provide exposure partnerships with other institutions and the, and it's led by a man named Michael Sore, who's just like a remarkable. Forward-thinking, innovative kind of thinker, right? It's you know, he cut the football team, replaced the football stadium with like a farm, right? So now we have, there's a farm program that can serve the restaurants in Dallas and you can get edge exposure to what that might look like. And it's just a really thoughtful way to provide exposure and experience to folks who are, you know, weren't supposed to go to college in the first place. Right. Then there are other projects that I've had that it's more, it's less about the result and more about the process that was, you know, we explored for success. Whether, whether it's, you know, how do we survey parents? How do we engage the community around it? And in higher education you gotta lift up every rock to figure out where your allegiances and coalitions are. And I'm really proud of the work that was. For a, a specific thing, but we've got this other ancillary benefit out of it, whether it was oh, a, pop in African American applicants or more you know, gifts from, you know. alums, whatever it was, it's not always about race, whatever else, but like there are projects that I've had in the past that just kind of felt right. The Chicago Museum of Science and Industry MSI, that was a really cool project. They have a lot of cool stuff going on there. That was a project I had at the, the last agency I was at and making, am happy with any project that offers an opportunity for someone to learn should they choose to learn. I don't wanna make people go to college because it's not for everybody. But if I can provide a pathway just with storytelling, excellent design, and a perspective that meet that moves people I'm happy with those kinds of projects.

CJ 20:19

And just knowing those, those experiences that you've had and how it's affected you, is there a specific organization or anyone out there that you'd like to, to bring into your current company to work with?

Kevin 20:30

I mean, I have some folks I'd really love to work with. I think that there's a time for all of that. I mean, I think to name it and claim it, there's a, there's value in that. But I wanna be super thoughtful about how I call people out in public discussions. Because they either might be contracted with someone I used to work with or might be otherwise involved. But I do truly, the end of the day, I look, lemme like. Higher education in and of itself was never built for people who look like us. We were never supposed to be educated. And so what I want, my goal here is to A, make sure that, you know, whoever wants to learn, gets to learn if they, if they want. And also to somewhat change the look, feel, and tone of the people who lift up the story of institutions. 'cause you can walk into any higher education marketer room and see a bunch of white women and up. Almost as many white men, but very few people of color in leadership positions. And one of my goals, you know, I'm covering tattoos. I have a perspective, I like to think of myself as a smart person, and I have seen the looks I've gotten from college presidents about, like, when I'm wearing short sleeves and they look at my tattoos and they have, you know, a dubious look in their eye. And I, gives me a platform from which to show them what I can do. I want that to be, that is my goal as well. It's not, it's, you know, there's a, a public good and a personal good at play here. And I know how I enter rooms. I know you know, I have a podcast as well. It's all about higher education, marketing, and branding that has afforded me lots of opportunity to talk over some really cool, innovative thinkers and. There is a way that higher education does it, and I think there's a way that higher education should do it, and I wanna do that. I wanna do the latter. And so yes you know, helping the industry, but also helping the industry. Okay.

Mike 22:15

Yeah, your your tagline is don't just market to people, move them. What is the difference between marketing to someone and actually moving them?

Kevin 22:23

I think that's a great question. I think that especially in an economy like, like the one we're living through right now, people need more of an incentive to separate themselves with a dollar. It doesn't matter how many dollars you have, what kind of individual organization or whatever you are. I think that the most substantive and effective marketing strategies are ones where you don't even know you're being marketed to. And so I think we all have examples of really great commercials that we have seen. But there are brands that really stand for what they stand for 100% no matter what. You know, what comes to mind most immediately is a Volvo. They are about safety and safety only, and every single thing you will see about them is about safety, right? They're, but one of their most recent campaigns includes the, one of the stars from the pit. to EMT and paramedics about some of the, the worst accidents that they, they've seen, and then they, you kind of weave in like, you know, Volvos are cars that we've had fewer accidents on. So they're taking this cultural, this cultural moment with the pit and the popularity of that. Pairing it with real life people who are doing that real life work. And that's more of like the showy piece. There's a really beautiful cinematic version of a similar argument that they've made about three, three or four years ago. And a tagline for that campaign for Volvo was like, the, the the best accident is the one that never happens. And it talks about there are these two families that are having very different days and they, and they overlap in a moment and what the, what the car does in order to, to avoid that, that com, that accident. I think that those are two very transactional, right? We're buying a car, but there are a lot of the you know, decisions to make around a car, right? When you start have babies and stuff, there's different questions that you ask. And so we know who our audience is, we know the story that we wanna tell, and that is the kind of storytelling that moves people to act. Long gone with the days of just transactional shit, right? Like we are, we are beyond like buy this vacuum 'cause of X, Y, Z. It's not that. It is how it makes your life better, easier some, some sort of benefit to your life. And if we're not having that conversation, then we're just marketing. If we are having that conversation, we're moving.

Ken 24:23

So Kevin, as a relatively new entrepreneur, can you talk to the audience about how you determined your pricing, right? Like how did you determine the cost of the services that you provide and, and how like. How important is that whenever you are starting a business?

Kevin 24:46

Is a really,

Mike 24:47

Yeah, because I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you, I've seen some off with some small businesses and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do some marketing. And then I get the, that thing. I'm like, oh, I'm not gonna do no marketing right now.

Kevin 24:58

I mean, marketing is one, is a funny thing. It's one of those things that people sometimes know that they need to do, but it becomes too expensive or it's a thing that they cut first and still have a search for sales happening. But in terms of pricing, it was a very, it's very hard to choreograph. Right. The coming out the gate last year in February, I had like friends and family rates, right? And then we had friends and family rates for about six or seven months. And then as more clients came on, who are not friends and family, but attached to friends and family, there was a slight increase. And now at the time where it's full, your people are paying full freight, right? And it's an hourly, rate there's a, a rate for hourly projects, and then there's a hourly rate for retainer projects, which are two different things. And you know, the people who were in friends and family who had seven month contracts, you had to like deal with those. And they were, they were, that's what got me off, you know, on my feet. So they're very valuable folks, but then know the people who are willing to pay a bit more. And you have to balance like, okay. This person who's new to the network of clientele is now paying full freight. I still have a friends and family, they, they get the same amount of attention. And so you gotta balance all that effort. But I think pricing is a very strategic activity. It's a balance between not underselling yourself, but also making sure people understand the worth of the work. And I think part of that is. Understanding what their goals are, what their interpretation of their work, of your work is and how they perceive it. Because someone who says something like, I wanna go viral is gonna pay more. Out the gate than someone who's just like, I need a marketing strategy that's this, this and that. Because going viral takes four. It takes a long time. It's it, it's lightning striking, right? And no one, I don't think anyone can guarantee something going viral. So that's gonna, you're gonna out the gate, pay more than that. But if it's thoughtful, if there's already work done ahead of time, that will inform the marketing work that I will be doing. All that comes into play when it comes to pricing. But I learned real hard, real quick that not to under undersell yourself.

Mike 27:02

Yeah. And you just touched on something I was gonna ask on ask about. So how do you build a brand on the type budget when you can't afford an agency or full-time marketing Hire and get prepared and do all the things ahead of time. So when I do have the budget and come to you, you know, you have an understanding of what I need and what I'm looking for.

Kevin 27:24

Well you learn it yourself. I am now a graphic designer. I'm now a photographer. I now edit videos like I've learned to do the things that I wanted. To offer. And that was out of necessity. I don't want to keep doing all the things that we offer 'cause it's, you know, I'd rather build you know, an ecosystem of folks that I can lean into. But when it's just you, it's just you. And so I've been quite diligent and, you know. Getting into Adobe Illustrator, which, you know, I, I've been around it 'cause I've worked in agencies, but I've never really been in it. I've had some really good friends who are designers who've been really helpful and like, you know, think about this and that. It's, it is the quintessential like. You know, the president does everything right, clean, empty the trash, does the design, does the flyers, does the social media, all that. And I think it's the best way to learn because it gives you a different perspective for feedback it. It gives you a different respect for all of the things that you happen in the businesses. Where I was a part of that, I was like, oh, that's kind of a cool thing. I wonder if I could do that and learning quite quickly that either I could or I couldn't. it's just a different use. Like there's a, there's this. Awareness that that occurs when you have to do it all. And it keeps you busy, which I enjoy being busy. I enjoy working, I enjoy learning. I'm extremely curious. And so I think those are like some of the qualities that I lean into, right? If I want to be good at this, then I have to learn this, this, and that It's it. It was important for me to understand going into this, that I consider myself a creative person. I'm not a business person, and so the creative part is what keeps me in the seat, in doing the stuff that I wanna do, that I wouldn't say it comes naturally, but it's what I enjoy thinking about as the creative parts, the for clients. I know that I'm not a business person and so the business part is the harder part to learn, right? Like all of the tax stuff and the accountants and the things that you just kind of, I didn't have to think about as an account person or a SVP, just kind of someone else took care of. And it is very important for any entrepreneur thinking about, you know, doing this, that like whatever's driving you into it, whether you are a business person who needs to learn creative or the reverse, there will be a learning curve. And mine happens to be on the business side.

CJ 29:38

You, you kind of touched on it a a bit. You are in the business of marketing. Your experience and background is in marketing you know, a startup your own, realm. How do you market Bain Big Nail and, and as a, a young entrepreneur who's actually starting up a business what sort of things should they look for and, and kind of focus on in getting their business out to the world?

Kevin 30:03

Great question. Was. When I realized how much I really enjoy working in higher education, I wanted to meet, know as much about it as possible. And that is tend, that tends to be how I operate around anything that I find enjoyable is that I would just wanna know information. and so it was about building a reputation that was unquestionable. Being associated with brands that people were knew about and understood the, the quality of work coming out of those places, but also was really about where I'm putting myself, right? Like as a, as a new business owner in LA where there's businesses, you know, everywhere around you. It was, it's important for me to be immersed in the communities that I wanna help serve. And so in that, you know, when I opened up talking about the credential piece around what I'm, the things I'm collecting in order to add some validity and legitimacy to the work that I do on the hospitality side, know, I go to you. Food, know, award events. I I try to put myself in places, not for the opportunity, but for the connection, and then hopefully, you know, plant the seed and then hopefully that that will bloom somewhere down, down the line. I know a lot of people who go into rooms. Looking for a transaction. And I don't think that's the right, for me, that's not the right approach, right? It feels more transactional and it feels less authentic. I wanna be a known quantity, have my works, you know, be known as well. And then at some point I'll get a call to say, want you to do this thing for me. And that has been what has worked for me, for me. I think that there are different ways to approach business development as an entrepreneur, and mine is from the relational perspective. Not transactional.

Ken 31:47

Have you ever had to reject a client? Or maybe a better question is talk about the due diligence that you go through whenever you are approached by a client to determine whether or not they will become a client.

Kevin 32:02

I think this is a very important skill for anyone really to own. Is I believe in the quality of a question and I how a person talks about a thing is an indication to how they think about a thing. And if you, if you're saying, oh, can you just make it pretty? Then you don't really understand how marketing works, right? Like, I just need, I just need something pretty to put upon social or put on this bulletin board, whatever it is. And then we have to have another kind of conversation. Similarly in the marketing space the distinction between wanting a logo and building a brand are two very different conversations. And then there's just like temperament if how you treat people is really important to me. Not only because I've had terrible experiences in the past, like most recently in my last agency, but also because I'm a human and I don't wanna work with people who treat other humans poorly. And what I enjoy the most about, doing what I do now. Is living by values that I set for myself and then having them employed in the work that I do. I will never, like no one's ever gonna scream and yell at me again. No one's ever gonna be cussing at me and all coming out the side of their mouth. It's just not what I'm going to tolerate. And I get to say that now there's the consequence of that, right? of losing business, of not having the money that they, that they may have paid you, but there's no. There's no world in which I would rather have someone's money to be treated poorly. And so I think whatever red flags anyone feels, and no matter what the expertise you carry is, like if there's something that kind of sticks with you, right? Like whether it's, you know, trivial, like make me a logo or you know, talking bad about another colleague, they're the person that's talking bad about another colleague. Those are all clues. like, ignore those clues because what they are doing to you, they're gonna do about you later. So I think that I think that that is my rubric. And one of the things that my dad had, always, always said was never miss an opportunity to say nothing. And so in moments of silence, see what happens next. And that's always an indication of if I wanna work with you or not.

CJ 34:03

Agree with that.

Mike 34:05

So I have a question. So, if a young entrepreneur has a thousand dollars in 30 days to make the biggest marketing impact, would you recommend that they do?

Kevin 34:16

I said, okay, already have a brand?

Mike 34:19

Sure.

Kevin 34:20

If they already have a brand, I would get a, I would do a marketing strategy, right? It would be where are we gonna say the things, what are we gonna say and how are you gonna say them? if we don't have any sort of roadmap, what happens is, and this is my favorite analogy, that one of my former coworkers from long ago would say, is that when we don't have any sort of framework within which to message from or from which to message. If I'm throwing 16 ping pong balls at you, the likelihood of you catching any of them is pretty low. But if I throw you one ping pong ball, then you can probably catch that. And the same is true with messaging. If we don't know where we're going, we're gonna say all the things to all the people at all the time, and no one's gonna know what's the most important, what you stand for, et cetera. So as long as we can have a refined message. For that thousand dollars. And in that 30 days, ideally as hypothetically, we can build a roadmap from which that brand can communicate about itself to its intended audience and platforms where their audience already is what you, the last thing you wanna do is try to train new behaviors to people, for people to try to find you. You wanna be where they are, and that's what marketing strategies and comm strategies help to.

Mike 35:23

Okay.

CJ 35:24

Hmm. What's the the one marketing truth you wish someone had told you before you decided to launch your business?

Kevin 35:31

One marketing truth that seems to be consistent. Is that, you know, the cobbler's kids have no shoes, right? Like we are, I am a marketing business. Am I marketing at the level that I wish I was marketing right now? No, I'm not. I do marketing. so I think that it is like taking care of the, the outbound as much as you care for the inbound, the way that you treat your own work, treat the work for your oth for others. I think that there. There are a lot of marketing truths that kind of evolve with time, right? I think that there is one that's blossoming now around ai. I'm not sure how much I, you know, want to subscribe to that, but it is. There are lots of shortcuts when it comes to the work that I do. And what I want people to know is that when you take a shortcut, people will, people can tell we are living in a time with heightened perceptions. And we, I don't even have to get into the demographics around young people versus older people. We are all human. We evolve in customers of a thing. We know what it feels like when something is off. know what it feels like when something is on. and so I guess the truth is don't take a shortcut when it comes to your marketing because the build, the brand that you have built is valuable. And if you mistreat it, then it will become unvaluable. So I think that that answers your question.

Mike 36:52

We're, we're getting close to the to time, but I'm just curious. What's the one thing when you wake up in the morning and you're like, I'm about to go do marketing, like what? Brings you joy about what you do when you wake up in the morning.

Kevin 37:06

That the quality of my work depends on how open I am to creativity. Like, you're, like, I'm a, I am a raw nerd when it comes to things that are beautiful. If I feel a certain way when I'm listening to a song, when I see a fashion show, when I read a book, I do. I, my reading time is done in the morning. That all gets, you know. Mash together into some sort of solution down the line for somebody else. I have a notebook behind me that has, you know, lines and books that I love and not that it's not to say, I'm gonna use these lines and this thing, or whatever else. It's about like the ideas that are, that are captured. They are new ways to talk about those ideas. And one of my favorite things about the work that I get to do is that I get to spend time with myself and my brain, at the ocean, think about different solutions that are creative and beautiful and moving. Because I'm such an emotionally emotionally proud person, I love the way that I exist in the world as like a, like I said, a raw nerve. most times when I feel a things as hard as I do, someone else will feel a fraction of that. And I'm happy to be the surrogate for those emotions. If it means my work is stronger and better and more beautiful,

Mike 38:17

Nice.

CJ 38:18

I don't think we've touched on it much,

Kevin 38:20

I.

CJ 38:20

In the show. And I apologize, I meant to ask earlier, for our audience, can you give them you know, all they ways that they can reach out to you and all the ways that you market yourself where they can find you.

Kevin 38:32

Yep. My website is bay and bne.com. Bay and BNE on I'm just regular old Kevin Tyler on LinkedIn. And then my food stuff can be found at, at the full belly blogger on Instagram and Substack.

CJ 38:47

Nice.

Mike 38:48

you mentioned earlier that you're, that you host a podcast as well, right?

Kevin 38:52

Oh yeah, I do. About higher education, marketing and branding. That's called Higher Voltage. And that can be found on all different platforms. I will warn you that it's super nerdy, but I love doing it 'cause it's some of the best conversations I get to have. authors of books around the history of higher education, college presidents, big thinkers Ernst and Young, like, it's just really cool collection of of voices that I'm really proud to have been able to chat with.

CJ 39:14

I've got

Mike 39:15

Okay.

CJ 39:15

some paternity brothers that I'm gonna have to send that information to. I'm sure they'd be all about it.

Kevin 39:20

man. Please do, please do. It would be great. We're, we're looking for some right now. And one of my favorites, I guess, that I, I always wanna shout out to people that I've been had the great, great honor of in interviewing on my show. One, his name is Marcus Collins, who used to be the Chief Strategy Officer at Widen and Kennedy, which is a well-known marketing agency and is also at the Michigan University of Michigan, Ross School of Business. He focuses his work on, cultural competency and the currency that culture has in marketing. And so if we know what people believe in and, and we are no longer talking about demographics and more talking about the tribes within which we travel, we can get more people to move in the direction we wanna move. And his book for the Culture is one of the best books I've ever read about cultural marketing. And then the other person I I just wanna shout out is, a man who wrote the state must provide Adam Harris, who is a reporter for The Atlantic, and he talks about the history of HBCUs in the context of higher education writ large in America, and how the necessity of the creation of HBCUs is part of what kind of contributed to what we are seeing now. And so there's just two two black men who have done some really smart, big thinking that has informed my work for years.

CJ 40:33

Cool.

Mike 40:34

So we got two things, Kevin, that we do towards the end of the show. Well first before I do that, you mentioned food and is, and I love food. So what's your favorite dish?

Kevin 40:43

Oh man, I, this is like acting what my favorite kid is. I would say, at the risk of sounding whatever, we were traveling we were in a small city outside of Croatia. And there was a plate of food that was staved, arugula with some octopus and some roasted pistachios and some balsamic jo that I think about maybe once a week. And that was a couple years ago. That was my favorite plate of food.

Mike 41:07

Have you tried recreating it?

Kevin 41:09

It's funny you say that because my husband and I, so we, we try to travel as often as we can and my take home is like some sort of recipe to try and that's the one we didn't, I have not tried that. I should though. That's not a bad idea.

Mike 41:20

You should do it. You should do it. You're

CJ 41:22

mean, you're

Mike 41:22

welcome. So.

CJ 41:23

that that offers it.

Kevin 41:26

I listen, I don't know. That was very, I don't think so, but I'm gonna look for it. But there's a lot of good food here, man. That's a lot of good food here.

Mike 41:33

Yeah, like to eat, so be careful. I may show up at your door.

Kevin 41:36

I scared you. Did I flinch?

Mike 41:39

I'm on my way booking my ticket right after this. So as I was saying, there's two things that we like to do at the end of the show. One is we have our prior show guest left the question for you, then I'm gonna ask you to leave a question for the next guest. And then after that we're gonna do, not sure if you've seen one of the shows, but we do a you already know what kind of piece. Pause at the end, do a little thing. We pause. take a picture and save it for later. You'll, it'll pop up when you least expect it and be like, oh yeah, I did that. So with that said, I'm gonna go ahead and ask you the question that was asked from our prior guest for you. And then after that we'll let you go ahead and ask your question for the next guest. All right. All right. So the question is, what's one moment in your business journey that made you stop and say, yeah. This is why I do this, and tell us what the moment taught you.

Kevin 42:33

I think. I think it is word of mouth referrals. I have had clients that have had engagements either in my more formal agency life or since I've opened my business who have said to others. This is one of the smartest people you'll ever meet around. What do you need in marketing? Right? And I think that there's no better testament to skill and quality of work and personality than a personal referral. Because it's, you know, it's a risk, right? It's a risk for the person giving it and the risk for the person who is the beneficiary of it. And this happened two weeks ago. A former client of mine from Columbus. Pass my name in a glowing recommendation to another person who is really excited to work with me. And I think that that is, you know, it's one of those indications that you're moving in the right direction. That's in the marketing space, right? Like the other kinds of spaces that, that spaces that I inhabit. from these other opportunities in hospitality, right? Like I mentioned, being a James Beer judge, you know, having dinner with, you know, Gabrielle Union and Dwayne Wade, and being at Nancy, Nancy Silva's house. Like all these other kinds of things that are happening around the thing that I really, really love to do. And you're like, oh wow, this is. I am supposed to be in this space and it, and I, and it kind of lets you shed the imposter syndrome and people know your name. And I've been able to create a really strong network of folks in the food space in la, which is, you know, can be a daunting thing in this city, this large, but has been something that I've been really, really grateful for.

Mike 44:01

Okay. Name drop.

CJ 44:02

Right.

Kevin 44:04

I

Mike 44:04

I know. Yeah. Congrats.

Kevin 44:06

They're just really

Mike 44:07

That's.

Kevin 44:07

So for the person, the next person I'm always curious about what people learn about themselves. So my question is, what is the most surprising thing you've learned about yourself since becoming an entrepreneur?

Mike 44:19

It's a good one. I like it and I, I already know who our next guest is, so that's, can't wait to hear that answer.

Kevin 44:27

Oh, Lord.

CJ 44:28

That sounds like

Mike 44:29

No, he'll be fine. No, no, no. He'll be fine. I could just see his facial expression and. He'll be fine. So so yeah, so with that said we really appreciate you coming on today and telling us your story. And we're gonna have to do the, the, I don't even know, it's called traditional thing at the end. I don't know where I came up with the name, but I think it's just because of what it looks like. But it's called the Wakanda Peace Pause. you do like the Wakanda thing. You put up the piece and then you pause there for a minute and then we're all just gonna freeze for a couple of seconds and then after that we'll be good. Got it? Alright. I'm gonna count you down and then we're gonna do it then I'll just let us, tell us when to stop. It's just so I could take a screen grab of it later and it's all good. All right, we go. 3, 2, 1. To make everybody.

Kevin 45:20

This is really fun. I really appreciate you having me on and for the invitation. It was really great seeing all three of you.

CJ 45:25

Too.

Kevin 45:26

know,

Ken 45:26

We appreciate you joining.

Kevin 45:28

and Columbus and all of that. It's been, it's wild to have this reunion.

Mike 45:32

Yeah. No, I was super excited when I saw you pose that you were starting this adventure and yeah, congratulations on everything and I wish you nothing but the best. I, I know you're gonna kill it. I mean, just knowing you and who you are yeah, hopefully a lot of people see this and they look you up and they say, Hey. We, need some marketing

Kevin 45:50

I hope

Mike 45:50

and yeah, that's okay. All right. You hear this? People call up Kevin,

Kevin 45:55

hear it.